Today I Learned

"for Michigan" (formichigan) 08/14/2018 at 22:25 • Filed to: GM, Buick, L36, 3800

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The GM 3800 Series II V6 (aka L 36) which was introduced in 1995 uses inch-based nut and bolt sizes rather than metric. What. the. heck ?

itranthelasttimeiparkedit > for Michigan 08/14/2018 at 22:30

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good republican measurements. aroooo

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > for Michigan 08/14/2018 at 22:32

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Give them an inch and they'll take a mile...

Urambo Tauro > for Michigan 08/14/2018 at 22:43

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B a n f r a c t i o n s .

not for canada - australian in disguise > itranthelasttimeiparkedit 08/14/2018 at 22:43

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- Republican measurements

- Invented by the British

deekster_caddy > for Michigan 08/14/2018 at 22:45

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I just found that out a few weeks ago, it carried through the series 3 versions as well! We were rebuilding one and noticed the threads didn’t match the metric taps or dies...  most of them (but not all)!!!

for Michigan > deekster_caddy 08/14/2018 at 22:50

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My brother-in-law has an 02 Park Avenue that needed a water pump. When doing my research, I saw refere nces to 3/8 and 1/2 bolts on some of the stuff I read, but I figured that it was just people using the wrong size tools because they were close enough. I was shocked when I put some metric sockets on it and none of them fit quite right.

lone_liberal > for Michigan 08/14/2018 at 22:53

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As is only proper. 

itranthelasttimeiparkedit > not for canada - australian in disguise 08/14/2018 at 22:58

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interstate366, now In The Industry > for Michigan 08/14/2018 at 22:59

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An American engine uses American measurements?

Milky > for Michigan 08/14/2018 at 23:07

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I can’t imagine anything more GM (besides a supercharged 3.8L v6 making 24 0hp ).

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > interstate366, now In The Industry 08/14/2018 at 23:13

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... but only in America.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > for Michigan 08/14/2018 at 23:25

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And this hood lettering would lead you to believe the rest of the car was metric.

gettingoldercarguy > not for canada - australian in disguise 08/14/2018 at 23:29

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Have another star

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Milky 08/14/2018 at 23:43

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No, I think the Aveo explains mid-2000’s GM pretty well. 

Milky > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 08/15/2018 at 00:04

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Also acceptable.  

LastFirstMI is my name > Urambo Tauro 08/15/2018 at 00:35

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I don’t completely agree with this. Partially, but not like one whole unit of agreement. Maybe 1/2 or 9/16 of an agreement. 

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > for Michigan 08/15/2018 at 03:42

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Better than late 90s and early 2000s Fords. They have both SAE and Metric. Its pretty much a guess

duurtlang > interstate366, now In The Industry 08/15/2018 at 04:23

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It’s a bit.... dated to still use those measurements, isn’t it? Now I know this isn’t a huge problem as long as the vehicle is only offered in the US (and Canada), but still. It’s like offering a brand new 2018 car with a cassette player . Just because you can and because it’s tradition doesn’t mean you should. It’s time to move on, and has been time for many decades.

Cé hé sin > interstate366, now In The Industry 08/15/2018 at 05:27

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An American engine uses British measurements?

Fixed!

for Michigan > duurtlang 08/15/2018 at 06:11

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Yes! Yes it is. Metric has been the standard for everything other than common usage for a long time now. That GM’s engineers were  still using customary units in the 90s is very strange.

for Michigan > interstate366, now In The Industry 08/15/2018 at 06:19

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Customary units may be ubiquitous in common usage, but most engineering and scientific disciplines adopted the metric system long before the L36 was designed. 

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Milky 08/15/2018 at 07:01

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That’s more than Ford’s Supercharged 3.8l made.......

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > interstate366, now In The Industry 08/15/2018 at 07:02

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What about an American car, with an “American” engine, made by Mistubishi, manufactured in Canada?

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > duurtlang 08/15/2018 at 07:03

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I wish I could still buy a car with a cassette/cd player combo.......

Tekamul > for Michigan 08/15/2018 at 07:04

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Not everything. One of the strangest places of persistence is in microchip packages. Many dimensions are typically listed in mils, thousandths of an inch. And they are built to meet nice round numbers in mils. A 50 mil pitch has 1.27mm spaces leads.

duurtlang > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/15/2018 at 07:18

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But why? A CD player I can sort of understand, but a cassette player in 2018? There are alternatives now that are cheaper/better sounding/more compact/more storage/higher reliability/you name it. And you don't have to rewind/forward.

Example: You can put more music on one USB stick than 1 00 cassette tapes, that stick won’t cost more than one tape and it will have better audio quality. And is smaller.

duurtlang > Milky 08/15/2018 at 07:22

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And I thought my 150 hp 2.0L turbo engine (year: 1 996) made little power for it’s displacement. It is a 2 valve per cylinder engine though, so even for its year it was a bit dated.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > duurtlang 08/15/2018 at 07:36

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Sometimes I just want to listen to my old cassettes while driving. I can pop it in and let it play. No muss, no fuss.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > for Michigan 08/15/2018 at 08:35

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Having owned two of these era of Buicks: Yup. Super fun because the body and suspension stuff is all metric so... have a good time.

Quadradeuce > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/15/2018 at 08:39

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That’s more power than the 1996-1998 Mustang GT made...

BahamaTodd > not for canada - australian in disguise 08/15/2018 at 08:44

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MAGA... Brexit... checks out.

Urambo Tauro > LastFirstMI is my name 08/15/2018 at 09:02

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You shall be drawn and 1/4- ed!

Milky > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/15/2018 at 09:18

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Ooof, seems older though.  Anything from the 80s made crap power.  

someassemblyrequired > for Michigan 08/15/2018 at 09:38

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First year of production: 1961

Though it’s worth putting up with owning two sets of sockets and wrenches. They’re bulletproof and will easily return mid-30's on the freeway. Only reason they got canned is they were expensive to build.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Quadradeuce 08/15/2018 at 10:07

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Hell it’s only 20 hp shy of an 04 Mustang GT.

Actually, the series III 3800 SC (L32) made the same hp as the 04 Mustang @ 260 hp.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Milky 08/15/2018 at 10:08

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The L32 3800 makes as much hp as the 04 Mustang GT.

The L67 is only 20hp shy.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > for Michigan 08/15/2018 at 10:19

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This sounds about right for GM of that era. My 1993 Corvette was an interesting mixture. Any fastener on the LT1 and the body was inch sizes, the suspension and brakes were all metric fasteners , and the drive line and anything else under the car generally could be either.  

deekster_caddy > for Michigan 08/15/2018 at 10:38

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Yeah a lot of “10mm” bolt heads work much better with a 3/8 socket. Little did we know until we lost one that it was a 5/16 bolt! Yet so many of the accessories are metric...  thanks GM!

interstate366, now In The Industry > duurtlang 08/15/2018 at 11:12

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As was discussed a couple weeks ago, quite a lot of the English-speaking world still uses the old measurement system, just not nearly as extensively as we do. And we did try metrication  in the 1970s, but it didn’t go over so well.

interstate366, now In The Industry > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/15/2018 at 11:12

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Sure? I need coffee...

interstate366, now In The Industry > duurtlang 08/15/2018 at 11:13

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Cassettes are, for whatever reason, starting to  a comeback like vinyl did. 80s/90s nostalgia, I suppose.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > interstate366, now In The Industry 08/15/2018 at 12:18

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It’s something about the sound actually.

We have a decent collection of vinyl, something about the subtle background noise is very enjoyable.

for Michigan > someassemblyrequired 08/15/2018 at 21:07

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While t he Series II has some similarities to previous Buick V6 engines, it's not the same engine that was introduced in 1961.

someassemblyrequired > for Michigan 08/15/2018 at 21:52

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Ha yeah, the original was 3.2L. Pretty much the only carryover (especially into the series II) was the 90 degree V6 architecture. And SAE fasteners.

Fun fact: originally production was supposed to end in ‘99, but it lasted until 2008.

for Michigan > someassemblyrequired 08/15/2018 at 23:08

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GM just isn't good at putting things out of production. 

someassemblyrequired > for Michigan 08/15/2018 at 23:25

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Series II was such a revelation in ‘96 too - 200+ hp in a family sedan with over 200lbft of torque was pretty much unheard of.   I did some epically dumb stuff in Dad’s ‘96 Regal.

Milky > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/16/2018 at 09:19

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Old Mustang engines were known for not being that powerful, not really I high bar there.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Milky 08/16/2018 at 12:02

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Only 40 hp shy of the most powerful Camaro of the era.

Point is, for the era, the SC 3800 was making damn good hp/torque. Not sure why you want to shit on a decently powerful engine that also happens to be efficient and very reliable.

Milky > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 08/16/2018 at 12:28

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In 96 it was 240hp for the L67 and 285 for the Camaro.  A  fe w later the Camaro made 310-330hp and the V6 was the same.  

My 92 Lexus made 250hp with a NA 4 liter.

Also I’ve had shitty experiences with W bodies and 3800 s.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > someassemblyrequired 08/21/2018 at 22:25

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Yeah, that 3800 was a strong engine.